Silvio Berlusconi and the law

stefano de santis

That's your answer?
You just say it didn't happen? Wishing it away?
There were no menaces, there was no bribery and I never said there was...
Such tactics were not needed....but Berlusconi had the girl released by using the power of his elected office

Otherwise how did she go free?
The police chief in questions says Berlusconi told him to do it and released her to a member of his political party

Yet you say it didn't happen...strange.

A man of 74, and a very rich one, who uses his power as Prime Minister to free a young girl arrested for theft is something that would lead every other western prime minister to immediate resign….
If this is done to hide his (allegedly) sexual affairs with juvenile girls, well this is simply unbelievable even for a country like Italy that is considered (wrongly?) a western modern nation.

Berlusconi has been ruling Italy for 17 years now and has survived so many trials and accusations that I'm afraid he will resist this scandal as well, even though the evidences against him are many and all terrific.

Italians have never been able to get rid of their politicians (B. is just the last of a long list of ugly politicians: our parliament teems with people like him) and many Italians simply are not interested in Berlusconi affairs. Many Italians vote for him because they are afraid of the “communist horrors” that would doom their life in case of a “leftist” victory in elections….

Furthermore, he has in his greedy hands all televisions and things are not perceived by the average Italian the way a foreigner does: listening to most of Italian Broadcasting evening news can be unbearable on the way the truth is bent to Berlusconi interests or simply hidden for the interests of Berlusconi and his gang!!!.

Berlusconi has said today that he is "not worried" about latest accusations and he and his gang are already striving to find a way to avoid the trial....I hope to be wrong, but I’m expecting that nothing is going to change also this time!!!

From Italy with Sadness....

From the Financial Times

"... His complaint has merit only in the sense that his centre-left opponents, a jumble of ex-communists, progressive Christian Democrats, Greens and others, are so weak that the courts often look like the real opposition. Nonetheless Mr Berlusconi’s departure need not present a problem: Italy’s centre-right could easily find a replacement in its ranks.

Italy has numerous fine public servants, ranging from Giorgio Napolitano, its head of state, to Mario Draghi, its central bank governor ..."

Nothing particularly thought-provoking about this.

1) Like The Economist last week, the FT this week finally admits to agreeing to my view, for years now, that the Berlusconi phenomenon in Italy is as deep a reflection of all of Italian society, the so-called opposition in primis, as it is of the man himself and his supporters.

2) In 1993, Carlo Azeglio Ciampi switched from central bank governor, where he was well respected, and served as care-taker prime minister, followed by an other "tecnico" Lamberto Dini, both good sons of Italy (both Tuscans by the way), who made significant contributions, especially Mr Dini, to saving Italy from financial disaster in the early 1990s (Mr Ciampi "burned" some ITL 26 trillion in reserves in a useless attempt to stave off devaluation in 1992, but it was recovered the following year through a devaluation-induced export boom). So the idea of the well respected current central bank governor Mario Draghi's stepping in as prime minister is nothing new, but nonetheless not a bad idea (Mr Tremonti is probably too "political").

But most of the time Italy's politicians are perfectly capable of worse ideas for the country and better ideas to further their own careers, like most politicians are everywhere else.

here you can find the photos shot by Roberta Oronzo, the friend of Noemi, in the villa of Berlusconi!!! http://muscvlvs.blogspot.com/2011/02/photos-shot-by-under-age-girls-of.html

@LA CONTRA.He "ordered the young woman released"? He didn't nor he could,nor those who he called ever spoke of menaces,bribery or anything else.The "orders" are an invention.

Trial by media.
Easy to forget the media feeding freenzy in 2001 against Silvio Berluscioni when he ran against Rutelli.
Go back and watch and read some of the so called political TV programs and newspapers.
If Berlusconi is proven guility ,what next ?
If he is innocent will the journalists and opposition who accused him be held ACCOUNTABLE and pay the consequence or is S Berlusconi the only one to be held ACCOUNTABLE.
Please no insults and be impeccable with ones words or ACCOUNTABLE.

Coming up on To Catch a Predator Italian edition, Mr. Berlusconi bites off a little bit too much cannoli than he can chew.  If Italy was going to try and set precedence for women’s equality this is certainly not helping.  Blatantly using political power to influence women to cover up your abuse of women just perpetuates the injustice.  Furthermore, giving a hefty allowance (to the one 17 year old) for sleeping with you is heinous and I am pretty sure illegal throughout the entire world.  Mr. Berlusconi’s sexist treatment of women needs to end and he has to learn to pay the price.  Having this play out on the world stage will strengthen people’s perspective on Italy and with the ultimate hope of instituting a societal change in the way women are treated.  Oh but don’t feel too bad for Silvio.  There will be plenty of time to get acquainted with the women who will be prosecuting him.  (Can I get your number?  I mean sympathy). 

The Plaid Avenger

Readers would find the editorial from Monday's FT(i.e. prior to the ruling by the judge for the trial to go ahead) thought provoking:

Arrivederci, Silvio

Seven years ago Silvio Berlusconi’s doctor described the Italian prime minister, then 67 years old, as “technically, almost immortal”. At times the billionaire media mogul appears politically almost indestructible as well. But just as the good doctor’s remark contained more than a touch of exaggeration, so Mr Berlusconi’s political career is certain one day to come to an end. It would be best for his nation, and for the European Union, if that moment arrived now rather than later.

A Milan judge is expected to rule this week on whether Mr Berlusconi should stand trial on charges of paying for sex with an under-aged nightclub dancer and using his power to free her from a prison where she was held on suspicion of theft. There can be few democracies where a prime minister caught up in such an affair would not tender his resignation to spare his government and country difficulties while he sought to clear his name. But as the tale of Ruby the Heart-Stealer is teaching us, this is not Mr Berlusconi’s style.

By remaining at his post, he ensures that Italy’s name will continue to be dragged through the mud under the relentless spotlight of the international media. He ensures that his centre-right coalition government, with its lack of a reliable parliamentary majority, will be distracted from its tasks and incapable of vigorous action at a time when Europe’s sovereign debt crisis is far from over. Lastly, he ensures that the EU looks foolish and hypocritical in delivering lectures to Egypt, Tunisia and other non-European countries on how to govern themselves when it contains such a supreme example of misgovernment at its heart.

Mr Berlusconi calls himself a victim of persecution by leftwing prosecutors and judges bent on reversing the electorate’s verdict and overthrowing him in a judicial coup d’état. His complaint has merit only in the sense that his centre-left opponents, a jumble of ex-communists, progressive Christian Democrats, Greens and others, are so weak that the courts often look like the real opposition. Nonetheless Mr Berlusconi’s departure need not present a problem: Italy’s centre-right could easily find a replacement in its ranks.

Italy has numerous fine public servants, ranging from Giorgio Napolitano, its head of state, to Mario Draghi, its central bank governor. They do honour to their country and represent the Italian nation at its best. Mr Berlusconi does not, and his refusal to do the right thing and step down is nothing short of shameful.

stefano de santi

Lets agree for the sake of argument that there was no payment for sex and if there was sex it was free and consensual...OK?

How do you defend the charge of perverting the course of justice and abusing the power of his elected office when he ordered the young woman released from police custody after a felony offence?

Sex isn't the issue, that only carries a 3 year sentence.
Its the abuse of power and the cover up that carries the serious 12 year maximum sentence.

How do you defend Berlusconi regarding this?

@RICARD BATES.MORA,MINETTI AND FEDE could have been prosecuted,considered that the "Judges" are showing an arrogant and arbitrary choice of methods and times.Fede is an 83 old man:men 74 and 83 years old spending nights of orgies with young girls?Totally ludicrous.For the rest you do not answer because the answer is nonexisting.Fede and Berlusconi could be prosecuted like Cesar after meeting Cleopathre.I am not the GIORNALE,and my opinion,if you want it,is that sometime,not always,Berlusconi tried to convince the women that FREELY met his parties to have sex with him.Which thing happens normally in any discotheque,pub or dancing since the beginning of times.

@JOE SOLARIS.I know well Slansky also because he was tried and killed by the Stalinists Czechoslowak.I used to meet lots of people up there in the old Czechoslowakia:my wife was from Pezinok.You tell me that there is not bolshewiks in Italy.The bolscewism is a praxis,more than a name:the praxis of invading the "bourgeois"institutions to turn them into political tools.This is absolutely consistent with the behaviour of those "Judges".The result is:menaces against their opposition,propaganda,slow destruction of the concept of truth.I offer one more example:D'ALEMA calling Berlusconi to "witness",say as to be inquired as guilty person to COPASIR,bipartizan institution where the Stalinetto is behaving like the boss of an italian KGB.The italian left is communist and bolshewik in his roots:it's an entity that must be put in a corner for sake of democracy.

@DANIELE PICA.Look,dear friend,that you are in some way the contrary of ELISA FAZZINO,and the clone of STEFNO FOLLI.Both,for one more combination,are "journalists" of the SOLE 24 ORE,the journal of the POTERI FORTI of banks and confindustria thet wants to command in Italy,but nobody elected.Elyza translates in Italian the calumnies showing up in the international media,forgotting of naming the word PETROL.Folli writes that the clash between the institutions will be "dangerous".Folli is like someone watching a boxe match,and screming and yelling that boxe is a dangrous sport as soon as the home boxer gats an uppercut.If this is dangerous,stop the provocations!It's so simple!

@carl byron rodgers:

Yes, but in Silvio's case, it has been "innocent after proven guilty" thanks to this strange Italianate interpretation of the Statute of Limitations, no?

Inoccent until proven guilty.
Knowing well Tribunale of Milan the next step is to find out if any of the Judges have any Political afflilications.
You might be suprised.

In the first day of Sanremo 2011, the music italian festival, Luca e Paolo perform with a song against Berlusconi: "I'll badmouth you". You must see this video... http://muscvlvs.blogspot.com/2011/02/i-ll-badmouth-you-luca-e-paolo.html

@stefano:

Slansky was a war hero, but hardly a democrat in politics. He was a loyal Stalinist until falling himself victim to the purges. I would hestitate to call that poetic justice, since I do not think anyone should be made to pay with their life for their political ideals. Still...

The idea of political persecution of the richest, most powerful man in Italy is nonsense. As to whether or not a fair trial can be guaranteed to such a public figure - there you are on more solid ground. On the other hand, Silvio himself has neve sought a fair trial, as he has bribed judges on several occasions: these charges have been proved in court, but the cases have been dragged out several times so as to fall under the Statute of Limitations: two strange interpretations of this concept exist in Italy: 1) that the clock continues ticking while the case is in court (in the US no, for example) and 2) that in Italy the crime is "erased" by the Statute of Limitations - thus giving Mr. Berlusconi the opportunity to proclaim his "innocence". The Statute of Limitations does not constitute innocence in democratic societies.

Stefano, you are entitled to your opinions. But there is no "Bolshevism" in Italy. Where? Calling people names and attaching a label, "communist" or "bolshevik" does not constitute guilt, no matter how many times this slander is repeated by the press, politicians and the TV. In the words of Gianfranco Fini - someone needs to give you a calendar. This is Europe in 2011 - not Slovakia in 1952.
I do not accuse you, but I accuse many in Italy of using this slander to attack anyone who disagrees with the frequent, hidden, undemocratic intrusions of the Vatican into the affairs of civil politics. These people would call Martin Luther, John Calvin, Peter Waldo, Giuseppe Garibaldi, Camillo Benso di Cavour, Giuseppe Mazzini, etc. etc. "Communists".
The point of the massive protest against Silvio is of course directed against the Vatican. Which has defended Berlusconi all these years in the name of what? An anti-Communist crusade? The defence of public morality? The moral and political bankruptcy of this strategy is out in the public square for all to see here.

Mr de Santis raises 3 objections. I believe the answer to his second objection is as follows: as Mora, Minetti and Fede were already being investigated before Berlusconi, it was no longer possible to ask to fast-track their trials - which, I agree, is a pity.
I take it his other two objections are too patently absurd to be worth replying to here (this isn't Il Giornale, after all).

The proper name for Ruby is Cockstealer

MAYBE Mr B is finished this time around. But he still has two paths to follow, both of which leading to the end of his political career. In both cases he will not go down without a fight. He will try to pass various ad-personam laws to end these trials, but not in time to stop the Rubygate due in court on April 6th.
The first strategy is to disregard the decision of the judicial system. This most likely will give rise to a total war between institutions, a paralysis in the government, and ultimately a collapse of the the government before the summer. The second is for Mr B to face the trial. In such case, Mr B, obviously guilty, will probably be watching the unfolding of events from his Antigua's residence, the same way Craxi (his political father) watched his end from Tunisia. Italy should rejoice because in both cases he is finally leaving Italian politics with no chance of returning.
Any other scenario, which see Berlusconi victorious, would represent the end of democracy (in terms of check and balances) in Italy. Let's hope for the best

@VladKO2

"Someone please explain how does it work...?"
Ok. In my opinion the case will unfold roughly like this....

There are 2 charges...
Prostitution with an under age prostitute (which carries a maximum 3 year sentence), and the abuse of elected office to pervert the course of justice (which carries a maximum of 12 years).

Prosecutors will press both charges knowing that the prostitution charge, while being the more morally damaging to Berlusconi, probably will not stick.
It will however prove a prior and intimate (if not sexual) connection between the girl and Berlusconi due to the 7000euro 'gift' which will be integral to the prosecution of the more serious corruption charge.

If both admit to a gift of 7000euro to evade the prostitution charge, such a 'gift' will help prove the connection between Berlusconi and the girl in the corruption case. It would demonstrate the 'intent' of Berlusconi to use the power of his office to pervert the course of justice on the girls behalf.

The prosecutor will argue that if Berlusconi was willing to 'gift' his young friend 7000euro, does it stretch the imagination that he would intervene with the police to have her released after her arrest?

This connection is important since it means Berlusconi cannot argue that he was informed by his staff that the girl was actually Hosni Mubarak's granddaughter and that he was acting in good faith, trying to defuse a possible diplomatic incident or some such nonsense. The police chief is apparently testifying that Berlusconi used this argument when he was directed to release her to one of Berlusconi's political associates.

The prosecutors are using a shrewd tactic.
Berlusconi's defence to defeat the prostitution charge, arguing that the money was a gift and not payment for sex, leaves him more vulnerable to the more serious charge of perverting the course of justice since his own defence against the prostitution charge will be used against him....

Berlusconi is left with the choice of easily beating the prostitution charge, with a 3 year maximum sentence, but complicating his defence against the corruption charge which carries a possible 12 year sentence.