Ex-communist Europe
Latvia's referendum
What's my language?
Feb 14th 2012, 11:36 by K.S.
MOST people living in Latvia know speak Russian. And perhaps half of the country’s ethnic Russian population (around 27% of the population) does not speak Latvian fluently, or even at all. So would it not be fair to make Russian an official state language, in which monoglots could fill in official paperwork, deal with public officials, and engage in political life? From the outside, that proposal, to be decided by a referendum on February 18th, looks superficially reasonable.
Yet most Latvians strongly resent the idea. They speak Russian because of Soviet rule, which started in 1940 when their country was wiped off the map as a consequence of the Hitler-Stalin pact. Latvia returned only in 1991 when the Soviet Union collapsed. Soviet rule brought not only forced migration of Russian speakers, but also compulsory linguistic Russification.
The referendum is bound to fail. But its significance lies in the polarisation of Latvian politics that it represents, and stokes. Ethnic-Russian voters (around half have Latvian citizenship, either by birth or naturalisation) were incensed by the election result last year, when the centrist parties of the prime minister Valdis Dombrovskis and the ex-president Valdis Zatlers shunned a coalition with the main pro-Russian party (and election winner) Harmony Centre. Instead the country’s leaders went into a coalition government with a radical right-wing party, the National Alliance which goes under the cumbersome moniker “All for Latvia!–For Fatherland and Freedom/LNNK”.
This party started collecting signatures for a petition for a referendum to force all publicly financed schools to use Latvian as the sole language of instruction. Their argument was that this would entrench the national language and unify the country. Critics said it was a provocative attempt to chip away at the russophone Latvians’ slice of the public pie. The petition failed: it collected only 120,433 signatures, which is not enough to initiate a referendum on this subject. But it produced a perfect pretext for pro-Moscow activists, such as the former leader of the Latvian branch of the National Bolshevik Party Vladimir Linderman, the leader of the radical-left Osipov’s party Yevgeny Osipov, and the youth movement “United Latvia”, to launch one in response, pronouncing it a protest against the attempts to assimilate minority children in the country.
This petition collected 187,378 signatures, more than the necessary 10% needed to trigger a referendum. The poll has prompted a resurgence of Latvian national feeling. Old gripes and grudges are getting a thorough airing on both sides and politicians are grandstanding. The mayor of the capital Riga, Nils Ušakovs, who is also the leader of the “Harmony Centre” is supporting the referendum, despite having tried to moderate his party’s image and appeal to ethnic-Latvian voters in recent years. President Andris Bērziņs first said he would abstain, but then urged people to “go and protect Latvian language”. Mr Dombrovskis has declared that “the status of Latvia’s core values is not questionable”, urging people to vote “no”. Some lawmakers, mainly right-wingers, have asked the Constitutional court to cancel the referendum as unconstitutional.
Some fear that the tacit reconciliation of recent years, in which Latvian residents of all stripes just got on with their lives rather than arguing about history, may be jeopardised. Whether or not the referendum will be followed by protests and uprisings from the Russian community, as promised by the initiators, the bill for the referendum will be a heavy one. Latvia has so many other things to worry about.
Eastern approaches deals with the economic, political, security and cultural aspects of the eastern half of the European continent. It incorporates the long-running "Europe.view" weekly column. The blog is named after the wartime memoirs of the British soldier Sir Fitzroy Maclean.
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Basically the message is this-If You want to live in Latvia,respect it and learn language .If not move bk where ever the hell is Your origins and don't think you can take over only coz we are small country.
"And perhaps half of the country’s ethnic Russian population (around 27% of the population) does not speak Latvian fluently, or even at all." - What is this statement based on?
This one (in the article) ir really narrow point of view. Latvians have been pushed to use Russian language for decades. Now, the problem lies in the fact that Russian people, who can learn Latvian language for free, don't feel like they really needed it. Because they won't find many Latvians who cannot answer in Russian language. History shows that there is no such problem in countries where local people are less responsive and flexible.
If Russians have a problem with Latvia’s policy - they should move back to the motherland. Simple. People have to adopt to the country they live in and stop b****** how unfair it is that they have to speak in a different language. I am Latvian living in the state and guess what - I dont expect people to know, speak and cater for me in Latvian. Language is a very important part of every county's identity and, I am sorry, I don’t want to be identified as Russian. I voted “No” and I am proud of my fellow Latvians for doing the same!
Tell it to all the retarded immigrant minorities across Europe and in the US who refuse to learn English/German/Dutch/Swedish ect.
When I move to a different country, I'll be teaching my children the local language first, and then if they are up for it, my mother tongue. It's retarded to do the opposite.
it is nice you've mentioned retards here.
People were not coming as foreigners to another country.
Because those people who moved into this land, they were moving in SAME COUNTRY - the name was USSR.
SAME Country with federal language Russian.
Capish?
Try to repeat all above several times - it might help with comprehension.
Why couldn't you solve it like the Luxembourgers?
There are 3 official languages of Luxembourg - German, French and Luxembourgish. All 3 languages are tought at schools.
Please do remember that this tiny country was invaded by Germany during WWII. Somehow they don't mind speaking the language.
Latvia is not Luxembourg. Russia is not Germany. And You are not Prince Albert.
Oh, you are sooo wrooong... - joking, of course!
- Learning an extra language will not destroy my national identity? In Latvia we have 2 ethnic groups defining themselves by discourses going against each other. In Luxembourg you have the "narrow" understanding of children learning 3 languages. Shame on you! (joking again).
- We still have ethnic groups very sensitive to nationalistic propaganda; look here: Israelis vs. Palestinians; Serbs vs. Albanians and so on and on. What time you're living in, you Luxemburgers? We still have fights to fight...
Good examples of language sensitive conflicts... just please remind me to what linguistic group does Palestinian (?) language belong?
Javanese
Read the letters carefully. There were no mention of Palestinian language. It was "Palestinians vs Israelis". And you get three attempts to guess what language Palestinians speak.
To end this nonsense. Does foreigners believe commentators who says, that in Latvia:
Russians can,t get a job in government positions.
That somebody asks russians what language they are speaking home.
That they can not work in banks.
Can,t even get a loan.
And overage latvian eats russian children in brekfast.
ARE YOU BELIEVING THIS LIES?
ha ha you are real funny - I am Forced to live outside of Latvia for many years.
Today - I feel England as my home much more that Latvia.
In fact, if Not my elderly relatives - I would never come back to that fascist state again.
Today, if I would loose my job - I have NO OPTION to "return" back to Latvia. Because I would not get any job there due my ethnic origins - despite I am a Citizen of that country.
By English law the definition of discrimination is following:
"Discrimination
To treat one particular group of people less favourably than others because of their race, colour, nationality, or ethnic or national origin."
Capish?
Yessssssssssssss, you CAN get a job! Because YOU SPEAK ENGLISH! Not Russian. Feel the difference? In Russia you could get a great job by speaking RUSSIAN. Get it??? Every country has their own language and normal people respect that :(
IN LATVIA THERE ARE NO RULES AGAINST ETNIC RUSSIANS OR ANY OTHER ETNICITY! The only rule is - to know our language. Stop bullying us!
It's not called discrimination if you are not qualified for a job/jobs.
Yes I do Feel the difference - NOBODY EVER discriminate me for being Russian. Well, officially at least.
Yes I've got the job not for speaking English - for my professional merits and experience in my field for more than 15 years. Nothing of it helped me in Latvia - because of ethnic origins.
Was killed anyone? Was I "occupied" anything? Was I stole anything?
Nope, I was Guilty for being Not Ethnic Latvian - that was all my crime.
You dare telling me your hypocritical hoaxes here when I had My Personal experience with all that horror.
I can imagine what fairy tails your politicians feeding at EU level.
What goes around - comes around.
It will come after you.
In the State of Latvia to have issues with the official state language which is Latvian is something. I would feel humiliated. Really. Imagine - you're in London and tube map prints are in English! Disaster! No ride on the tube then, or what? Just tell us - why in ENG you don't have no probs speaking English while back in Latvia is becoming an issue. Suddenly? No brainer here...
Well, as you've wrote - Suddenly Latvian was made the ONLY language permitted to use in state.
As I've mentioned 100 times already - There were TWO state languages in Latvia.
Everyone was able to use what he founds convenient to him.
Latvians had own ethnic schools, theaters, academies, movie studios, they were accepted to universities outside of normal admitting process - no competition, just go..
90% of communist and governmental bodies were occupied by ethnic Latvians..
Russians DID NOT immigrate to anywhere - it was One Country for centuries.
Try to imagine that British would be called immigrants in Wells.. - this is ridicules..
People were moving within borders of own country.
That goes for Latvians as much as for Russians or any other ethnic group in USSR.
After all those "Latvia is our Mutual Home!" slogans and voting for Latvian Independence, now Russians are removed from civil rights, have their language banned and are target for Ethnic Cleansing strategy - they Naturally feel betrayed and Cheated.
Coming late to this discussion, I browsed across comments and found, not at all surprisingly, a recurrent complaint from the defenders of obligatory Russian in Latvia: they feel themselves abused when, after the independence, someone refused to serve them in a shop or a restaurant because they spoke Russian.
This is total and undulated bovine stool.
The whole point not that you spoke in Russian, but HOW and WHAT you told in Russian. Here is something from my personal experience in the newly liberated Lithuania, years ago. In a restaurant I saw at the next table a small company of Russian dudes who were yelling at the young waitress demanding her attention, were rude, behaved like invaders and masters, and were actually offended before having any material reason to feel like that.
When she came up to my table, I told her quietly that being a guest of their lovely country I couldn't unfortunately speak Lithuanian, and asked her to choose among four languages (including Russian) in which I could communicate. Guess what? She'd chosen Russian, and what a nice dinner I had! She looked after me like I were her date, not customer. Those dudes were still hungry and thirsty when I left the place...
Similar experience I had in Estonia. No one can convince me that Latvia is very different in this regard.
Well, it's very positive result: the fact that Latvian voters resoundingly rejected a proposal to give official status to Russian language.
True, it's the mother tongue for about one-third of the Baltic country’s 2.1 million people (almost a cultural catastrophe for this lovely country, I guess) but so what?
Russian is not forbidden, cherish it all you wish in the privacy of your home. Establish a Russian speaking club or an amateur Russian theatre, if you are not a follower of the Soviet tradition of using several Russian expletives and interjections for all your communication needs.
Those who just can't imagine life without Russian as a state language can always repatriate, right?
Settlers shouldn't dictate to the core population how to run their country.
Ah, and before someone started silly ad hominem suggestions here, personally I'm very happy to live in a country where English is official, though my mother tongue is.... Russian.
Do not worry. Russians are free to send their children in Russian schools and they are not privat but supported by government. And there are hundreds of Russian schools all over Latvia. Also there are many Russian theaters also supported by government. The main is in Old Riga just renovated in a beautiful building. You can buy newspapers and latest magazines in Russian everywhere. Local Tv channnels are showing bought in Russian TV shows and movies. In movie theater all movies have subtitles in Russian and in Latvian, covering half of screen. The children movies are dubbed in Russian and Latvian, by best Latvian and Russian actors.
Russians are not living isolated from everything...they can live their lives normally without need to use Latvian language.
I'm not a Russophile, nor a Russian speaker.
The trouble with these Russian minorities in the former Soviet republics is a very intricate one; those Russians are there for the third, maybe the fourth generation already and they represent significant percentages in the total population. You cannot simply treat them like immigrants or foreigners. And, most of the cases, wasn't their choice to go to these countries; they were pawns on a bigger game.
Well, being a Jew in Canada is letting you have some insight, isn't it? Your personal experience is not enough to judge. Again: I'm not an advocate of Russians. In the 21st century it's simply absurd to think about a nation in the same terms as those of the 19th century.
Going from the end to the beginning of your post:
Principles of right and wrong, morals and such don't get obsolete every... how many years you suggest?
But even if every century should elaborate its own "terms" of what is acceptable and what isn't, recall the fate of 2 million French who shared Algeria with 4 million Moslems for generations, too. (Since 1830s, to be precise.)
They were kicked out of the country in 1960s as colonists, meager 30 years before Latvia restored it's independence. Is it absurd, to use your vernacular, to treat Russian colonists the same?
But Latvians don't! That's the whole thing: Russians cry wolf having absolutely no ground for that. They're not deported, just asked to speak the tongue of the country. Is it too much? I don't think so.
Every age has its own Morale and Good-Bad attitude. Example: in the "good old ancient times" - even in Early Mediaeval ones -, to exterminate the adversary in its totality (as nation) was a sign of braveness and... charisma ("being in the grace of gods"), even.
There is an error in your paragraphs treating the fate of French Algerians (pieds-noirs and harkis, altogether). Should France provide a smooth transition to independence, we had today a better recall of that situation.
I agree: Russians should speak the language of the country they live in. By refusing and trying to impose their ineffective plans they cut some bridges. I see here a long arm from Kremlin, through the secret services.
What I intend to transmit: in the 21st century Europe (EU), you cannot let a minority divisive action without institutionalized answer, doesn't matter how absurd are their requests. Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Moldavia, Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia et al. should deal with those Russian minorities (and other minorities) in a civilized manner; they simply won't go away or change. Only time will tell the way.
I don't say that France is blameless. To begin with, they shouldn't yield to the pressure of the so called international community so unreservedly in the moment when Front de libération nationale was in it's worst military situation. But French were never good in playing chicken...
I agree that EU membership puts certain obligations on Latvian government in regard of minorities. But this goes both ways, doesn't it? Russian minority in Latvia receives much more civilized treatment than their behaviour deserves.
Well, two comments. There were Russians (and ethnic Germans and other non-Latvians) in what is now modern Latvia prior to 1918. And Latvia is a de facto multi-lingual society. I think the refusal to acknowledge Russian as a state language is petty and an unfortunate reflection of either xenophobia or latent insecurity. And regarding 1940, unfortunately at that moment an independent Latvia had become unfeasible, given the security situation, it was bound to be brought under either German or Russian control. I say that as someone who very much supported Latvian independence in 1991 and who like Lativa very, very much.
Refusal of the official status to Russian as a sign of latent insecurity? This is crap.
Latvia can happily continue to be a multi-lingual, and multi-ethnic, and multi-whatever society having just one official language - Latvian. What's the problem?
New Zealand has just 4 million inhabitants, and many thousands of them are Chinese, Dutch, Irish, Croates, Greeks, Italians.... you name it. Should all their languages become official? If not all, what criteria you suggest to choose among them?
You're ridiculous.
It would be sort of ridiculous if not outright absurd that Russian is the official language in Latvia. To become a citizen, Russian speakers should pass a language proficiency exam as it is the law in the land of free - the USA (and many other countries) - and if they are born in Latvia, they have no one else to blame but themselves for not speaking Latvian - 20years after).
As they say it in NYC: love it or leave it.
Actually, I do not understand why the Latvians engage at all in this heated but pointless comment exchange. You guys have nothing to prove to anybody. It is your country at last.
Nope - this where you are especially wrong.
It is not Latvian land ONLY as you saying - there Other people are living over the centuries.
There was no Latvia in 1917 - it was Just Russian Empire.
Russians got the land by Beating OFF Swedish in 1709 - NOT Latvians..
So it is grossly incorrect to say - this is Latvians ONLY land.
It goes against ALL historical facts.
Yes, the historical facts are that the baltic tribes, later latvians, where oppresst and enslaved by Germans, Poles, Swedes, Russians,then again Germans and Russians. So what??? We lived here through all the centuries of hard times, we love every inch of this land! "You" (Germans, Russians etc.) just came to benefit from our labour. Who cares of your Tsars and barons! It's our land!!! :) :) :)
I never said it was Latvian only. BTW how many countries in Europe you know of that are 'only'??? Latvian Russians as any other minority have every right to expect to be treated as equals in Latvia which also implies they offer the same treatment to Latvians and not the imperial attitude. Being equal does not require that the Russian becomes the other official language. Given the history no wonder that Latvians feel threatened and insecure. Who wouldn't, sitting next to the big bear?
... and the land was empty and the brave Russians liberated the ... WTF we're talking about here?
- is anybody in the modern world who cannot understand the Russian are invaders for the last 3-4 centuries? Let's look around Russia: everybody has or had territorial problems with them.
It is Latvian land. The "balts" tribe was the one who inhabited the territory. And then everyone else decided that they want to occupy it due to its geographic location. Getting something by force doesn’t mean you are a true owner of it.
Latvian Russians as any other minority have every right to expect to be treated as equals in Latvia
-
I really wish you keep saying THIS to your brainwashed "tribesmen"..
Russians Requesting Equality - nothing else.
Master and Slave can't be Equal by definition.
Two Free Men with Equal Rights might be equal, ONLY.
As for the fears you've mentioned.
It is true indeed - there are Fears within ethnic Latvian community.
Did you ask yourself where those fears coming from?
They are coming from Latvian government, newspapers, sinister group of politicians.
I bet they are sitting in their offices and laughing their ... off.
Yeah, go on Janka - fear the Russians... they are BAAAAD..
and I need to buy a New Audi to my garage at my villa in Baltezers..
Because without this fear - their is NOTHING left for Latvian politicians.
Then, they will need to address real problems.
Then, they will need to answer the questions like why Latvian industry was annihilated or why all property in Riga center belongs to Americans..
But if you just read Latvian newspapers and listen what Latvian politicians are telling - there is War going on on streets of Latvia.
But it isn't..
There is no hate Russian teaching Latvian how to fly helicopter.. there is no hate when Latvian fixing car for Russian guy in service.
But there is a lot of hate towards to Russians as we going up society echelons.
Russians MADE their choice in 1991 - when they Voted for Latvian independence from USSR.
You are praying to false Gods and chasing enemy that does not exists.
Or should I say, you are Manipulated to all these things..
Don't push the envelope here again.
You were slaves to Livonian order crusaders, Like Estonians to Dutch ones - if you recall, Dutch just Sold the land and Estonian tribes to order for example..
However, Latvians Never were slaves in Russian Empire or USSR.
Unlike to All empires in Europe, Russians never had tradition of extermination or enslaving minor nations or tribes.
In fact, not a single minor nation extinct in Russian Empire - they all survived and were developing.
Just wanted to make a point.
Deep seated fears of Latvians are result of - and I'll be polite - less than pleasant experience with the Russians (and the rest), of course. That being exploited by local politicians of all stripes is nothing new, and has been at play all over the world. Again, being equal does not imply giving the minority's language the official language status.
Now, what makes you think I am one of the tribe?
If you are a heavy weight in wrestling, would like to take you on. Cheers.
wrong again we where livonians ... just fixing the lack of your knowledge in history...
Wow, I'd expect more attention to "own" history from "tribesmen"..
There is a huge difference between Livonian people which were under principality of Russian Polotsk and... Livonian Order of Sword.
Livonian Order of Sword was a branch of Templars(!!!) - the only order received orders from Pope ONLY and directly.
After several defeats they became part of Teutonic Order - a military religious organization of Roman Catholic Church waged the Northen Crusade colonization wars against East Europe.
"Go and Take what is yours!", Pope proclaimed and Germans, Dutch, Swedish went with war against Rus.
"Everybody who will kill barbarian - will get to Heaven!"
They've got there - after disastrous defeat from Russian army led by Dmitry of Pereslavl in 1268.
You really don't want me start on this - I've spent years studying subject..
Still,
I strongly believe that is ridiculous to bring events of 12th century and conspiracies around Templar's into Today Life and wrongdoings being done by Latvian politicians.
Well, if you like that way, I can tell you.
Historical Fact is, that Winners in the War - Russians generously allowed local tribes to live together with them and granted to those tribes SAME civil rights as Russians had themselves in Russian Empire.
I wrote generously - just Think about all those tribes Exterminated and forced to exile by winners.
Think about fate of american natives for example - it was happening about same times... Latvians had nothing of such treatment.
It looks like now, that Russians are paying price for own generosity.
Lucas does not understand elementary things ... Latvian society is never, ever, has not been a single! This referendum is not partitioned anything, it only worked to the detriment of the organizers ... 200%! Latvians are now organized, united, patriotic, positive way than ever before .... Lukas This time does not understand anything about Latvia ... :)
Unfortunately I have to say - as a latvian I feel discriminated in my own country. I can start with my childhood, when I was physically and verbaly abused, just for being latvian. Imagine 10 years old girl against five to nine teenage boys. Back to these days - real exaple - I was looking for computer class, and soon understood that first should ask in which language this course realy is. As well I have trouble with getting a job, because my russian is not fluent, so my only options are international outsourcing companies or job where I dont have any contact with people. I have been rejected several times becouse I dont know russian so good, most of jobs didnt even need it. And yes, I will never be able to compeat with people coming from mix families or russians who actually speak latvian. You will tell ...learn russian. But is it too much to ask to get a job without knowing russian in Latvia????
Then yes, I am so immune agaist all these nazi and fashist coments, have heard them so much, for not responding in russian as ser or madam would like. Latest I got from my so I thought friend when I said I woted against.
My sister who is 3rd year medicine student is forced to get her russian better. And I will tell her words - " Do I really have to feel guilty about that I am from latvian family, not having russian speaking friends or watching russian tv?"
Its sad that more and more young people are forced to look for jobs outside Latvia, becouse they dont speak russian.
I agree, I had very similar problems, as my russian was, at best, adequate, but not fluent.
Well to be fair, doctors should definitely be able to communicate with all of her/his patients. And if 1 third of the country prefers Russian, then there is nothing more to it. This has nothing to do with discrimination, it is a job market. Better skilled people win, people who speak Russian in Eastern Europe... win. And I am speaking as an Estonian who does not speak a word of Russian. And I regret this, but I will try to change this soon.
Dear Zane, It s time to start thinking positive. We can only contribute to expected changes in our country if we unite our efforts all of us: Latvians, Russians, Lithuanians, Byelorussians, Polisch, Jews, and all other nationalities in Latvia and will succed our goals if we integrate and not disintegrate. Think of it. Just an interpretation of a famous proverb - Every cloud has its silver line - even Russians:) Please visit delfi.lv
http://www.delfi.lv/news/world/other/krievija-izdiedzeta-puke-no-30-tuks...
Real situation from my life. I was in hospital in Sweden (were everyone speaks english - right). I was in Sweden just few month and starting to study Swedish, so of course I tried to comunicate with doctor in English. Unfortunately she had trouble with understaning and could not replay much either. I know, many non Swedish do not belive to that! Well thanks to intern from India who basicly took care of me and did all translation. And that wasnt only one doctor, later I met more doctors and nurses.
How about this REAL story happened with ME Personally.
I am doing wrestling as a sport and broke by ankle during training.
In heat of fighting I've failed to understand seriousness of trauma and just got to public transport to get to home after training.
When I came to home - it was clear that something is grossly bad with leg. It got blue, big swell, very painful.
So, I went to Trauma Center for medical help..
Guess what - Doctor REFUSED to talk to me in my native language referring to State language law!!!!!
I am citizen of Latvia paid taxes all my life to this bloody government - I WAS DENIED from receiving Guaranteed by law medical help. Just because of my ethnicity ..
I had no option, but to stand up and go away.
I've took taxi and got to private clinic - they've diagnosed that my ankle was broken in three places..
I've spent in bandages three month after that.
how do you like such story? I am not the only one who had this..
Your comment shows the real problem of russians in Latvia. You don't want lesser rights for russian language, not even equal rights, you want to be privilleged here. Like it was in USSR - if someone speaks russian everyone must answer in russian.
Well, I have heard only of one doctor, who publicly declared that he will not help somebody with tatoos "CCCP" etc. Only one.
Other doctors I came across are a) russians b)speak russian fluently c)try to speak russian.
Maybe you had some special, storongly nationalist doctor or you made the story up - becouse honestly, there are lots and lots of russians as the medical personal in Latvia.
Oh, but why Im even talking. Many of theese comments are possibly writen by some payed comentators - some of the lies they tell is just ridiculous, you can easily see they have never been in Latvia. Just as there where Moscow payed proffesional agitators in our last government elections.
Nice try to blackmail me - but Anyone who was in Latvia can confirm everything I wrote here.
I say - you obviously a member of some Latvian nazi party and getting paid one way or another for creating an Image Of Enemy of Russians to Latvians.
It is very visible - you are NOT interested in recovering the Truth and settling Compromise.
"Just as there where Moscow payed professional agitators in our last government elections."
-
It is another blatant Lie - even Latvian "KGB" hunting referendum activists has Nothing to show..
Bullshit and prejudice agaist Russian comunity members. The statistical data argue against that. Iveta Purina (one of anti-russians apologists!) said in her article in Diena, that "statistical data indicates that large share of inhabitants speak Latvian. If in 1999 67% of inhabitants spoke Latvian, in 2000 - 79%, in 2008 the number of people who can speak Latvian already was about 93%."
Yea, the other question is - do they bother to speak Latvian?
It is a "nice" feeling to live in your ancestors land, your homeland, and to go around thinking: "Can I speak to this person Latvian? Or his BIG pride will be wounded and he will think of me - oh, that nazi!" Can I buy bread and milk and say "Thank you" in Latvian? Can I ask direction in Latvian? Must admit, very often I give up...
But NO. I will speak Latvian, call me nazi for that all the day long, if you like! :) Have a nice evening! Ar labu nakti!
Strange u learned English but Latvian was oh so hard for you ....
Yes, you can and actually you speak Latvian without any restriction. The question is not about language anymore, the question about attitude, racism and discrimination, that have a great state support in Latvia.
Not so hard for me to speak Latvian but also translate from Latvian to English.
I speak Latvian but I have to say that it was more easier to study English because of attitude.
In reality the Latvian state's aim is not to improve Latvian language skills but to build as much as possible restrictions for non-Latvians.
it is better to ask - why they Obliged to?
Besides, everybody Knows - language just a convenient instrument.
What, you seriously will try to convince anyone that if Russians will speak Latvian better than Latvians themselves they will be not discriminated and will be allowed to work in banks, government, state institutions, will receive loans and financing as Latvians do ....?
We all know - it is not going to happen.
Because it is NOT happening today.
the aim was to protect the latvian language in general the only aim to protect ouer values and base of latvian republic as independent democratic state . so as you stated it was your attitude against latvian language in general - i think with that you sed it all and i thank you for that - that shows why exacly we have so much unloyal citizens in our country and thats the only trouble we have - ppl get to easy the citizanship in latvia without understanding what comes with it - a total devotion to a country where you live in if you are its citizen, and exacly coz of ppl like you we had this unrealistic referendum - they take but never give ...any inteligent persone would understand that any language has to be protected , but ppl like you , why ? coz you have easyer to demand for others then actualy put any thing in comunity as whole... and one more thing before i wrap up this usless conversation . you can cry all u like about it you will not be abled to treat our country values with a dirty feet any more , we latvians just wont alow you do that inought is inought ! and if the whole world would come and spit in my face id be proud of being latvian and i will be for ever more proud that we saved our language few days ago . and there is nothing you can say or do !keep boiling you will have to learn latvian if u live in latvia , and what you all just got from it is this - now when latvians where so polite and answered usually in russian when you spoke to them russian , you will get ppl speak only latvian with you so you will have to learn it u like it or not - have a good one and enjoy ur stay in my country , as beautiffull country it is , or you wouldnt stay there ;)
How can you lie in such scale? Can,t understand that. Many russians works in institutions you mentioned. How then the almost third of parlament deputies can be russians then? I think posting this kind of comments is your bred, you are getting paid for that, thats no doubt.
Well maybe because I was working myself in many of these institutions - that is why I know perfectly well the real situation there..
and you manipulating here - members of Parliament are Elected by citizens. They are not Hired by nazi government..
Before you sad, that russians can,t get a job in thous institutions at all, it proves you are a liar.
One more example the former chef of Corruption Prevention and Combating Bureau (KNAB) was Aleksejs Loskutovs, now it is Jaroslavs Streļčenoks. Isn,t he russian?
Sure - I am KGB agent... it obvious that I am Putin himself.
You are pathetic..
The truth is - I am just RESPONDING to endless flow of hate Hoaxes you trying to flood the internet here.
No you are not responding, when I disprove your arguments, (proving, that your mentioned examples are lies) you just change topic, by adding some offense.
Poor baby Russian!
- hey, Russians, just got some jobs for you in Siberia. Nice tropical area, well-developed.
Trying to justify your point of view is against Reality, History, Geography and Ecology. I think, even Gynaecology is against you!
ECRI recommends that the Latvian authorities reconsider their policy on the use
of state language and provide for an obligation to use the state language only in
cases where a legitimate public interest can clearly be discerned.
...
In its third report, ECRI recommended that the Latvian authorities encourage
and ensure the participation of ethnic minorities in the political process, in
political elected bodies and in the public service.
http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/ecri/Country-by-country/Latvia/LVA-...
Those foreigners who has never been in Latvia, should save their breath for advocating civil and human rights in Russia and Belarus, where you can wake up in jail for just saying what you think! Ofcourse, its easier to ridicule and bully a small, weak and peaceful nation without any nuclear weapons! :P
Language POLICE! Yea, like they come at night in your home, brake your door and take you away for torturing! RU-BBISH! In reality it is an inspection for public places and it can penalize you with minimum 35 and maximum 284 euros. Thats it. It is for situations when you come to the shop, but shop assistent refuses to talk with you Latvian. Its a pretty common situation in Latvia. Why to bother? We all know Russian, right?
> but shop assistent refuses to talk with you Latvian. Its a pretty
> common situation in Latvia. Why to bother? We all know Russian, right?
And in any other country, if the shop assistant doesn't want to speak in your language you go to another shop ;). His loss.
Before author wrote the article he should have learn more about the topic.
1) Russian language and Russian schools were present in Latvia for many centuries but not just appeared after 1940
2) Russian people voted not just for language but for their rights and against discrimination that latvian elita prefers not to mention
3) Referendum didn't split the society, You cannot split that its already splitted It just showed that situation that it is.
You mean those Russian schools for latgalians in the times of the Russian Empire, where latgalian children where beaten and wore shaming signes for only talking latvian/latgalian with each other??? Those Russian schools, you mean?
1. Not really. Latvia has been occupied by Russians, and Germans, in fact, several times. However, only 8% of the population was Russian before 1940 occupation.
2. I've heard several Russians talk about discrimination. What do you mean by that?
3. The society was not split, yes, there were the occasional minor issues. I've lived, studied and worked alongside Russian speaking Latvians without any problem. The problem has occured now when some foolish people start throwing around big words like "discrimination", "rights" without fully appreciating what they are talking about. It's an insult to the people who trully are being discriminated.
This is coming from Kremlin. It's the main way for Putin and his secret services to control the borders: create diversions.
Yeah, for some 20 centuries... we can still see the big Russian pyramids in Latvia, Poland...
- ah, bodies pyramids.
Edward Lucas is a serious mistake this time :)) Latvian society long ago was and is divided. Referendum organizers did themselves a shot in the leg, rather than reaching the goal .... - Again very act unifying Latvian society as an expression of patriotism and participation was not spotted since time immemorial ... - More than 70% participation is not experienced in any of the last parliamentary election, none of the previous referendum .... Latvians are again positive and patriotically charged for a long time ...
So, it is, Luke! :))))
To learn countries language where you reside in, is the least thing to do not only in a respect of the host place and its values but as well in respect to your self, to be able to understand and a live your life properly.
Admitting that you can't learn means that you have no capacity to do so, that's how it must be understood.
Seeing Latvia's situation in this light the only feeling you can get is that country is overpopulated with intellectually unable people having no capacity to learn.
By appealing to their disability, this could be the only valid reason why Russian population might want to ask their language to be a second language.
It is remarkable that so many acrimonious post come from people who are not even from Latvia. As ethnically Russian citizen of Latvia I will always stand firmly in my belief that there is no discrimination against Russians in Latvia. Willing Latvian Russians participate in social and political life of Latvia. Let the ethnic composition of current Parliament be my witness. In private businesses Latvian and Russian speakers work side by side and agree to be different, yet to share Latvia as their home. 20 years on, it is time for reconciliation and not war.
So I am sorry to see that the extremists on both sides get so much attention. In Latvia both LNNK and Harmony Centre are engaged in cheap vote winning competition, which is totally irresponsible not least because in the eyes of foreigners it creates the perception of the hostile divisions within Latvia.
Latvia cannot be compared to Switzerland or any other well established country. Latvia is young and common language is the very defining feature of Latvia as a sovereign state. After all, it was singing of songs in Latvian that paved the way for Latvia's independence in the 1990's. If not for strong nationalistic sentiments at the time, the world map would not have Latvia on it. (And yes, in Latvia ethnicities are not geographically segregated, so Canadian or Swiss solutions would not work there.)
For all those foreigners who have no clue of what it means to be Latvian Russian, please listen more and shout less! For those Latvian Russian who cannot be bothered to learn the language and still have warm memories of USSR and/or mother Russia, perhaps it is time for you to move on (literally or figuratively). For the rest of Latvian inhabitants enjoy cultural and ethnic diversity and respect each other!
Thank you for your loyalty.
Hey, you'll be named as "anti-Russian".
- oh, Canada has no solution yet for Quebec. It's simply under the rug and growing wildly.
Most of the mails of foreigners in this forum recommend bilinguism and respect of the minorities and many of the mails of latvian speaking reflects a deep hate and desire of revenge, bad signal for the future with the black past of Latvia in the WWII.
Black past indeed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESGactCIx_g
I voted NO in the referendum, along with over 800,000 people. With 70% of voters at the polls this was the most attended referendum in the history of independent Latvia. SO, CLEARLY, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR LATVIANS.
There was a media frenzy on both sides and it seems like Russia's plan backfired, because they underestimated the importance of our language (just like you). Instead of polarizing the country and undermining the Latvian identity, they managed to bring people together to fight a common cause.
Interestingly, the results show that people voting NO were not only Latvian Latvians, but also Latvian Russians. I have friends with Russian backgrounds, but they identify themselves as Latvians not Russians, and many of them just said that.
There are certainly other things to worry about (demographics, economics…), but how dare you say that this is just a matter of convenience for the Russians living in Latvia. This is our language, part of our identity, our constitution. Would you say the same thing if such referendum would happen in Germany for Turkish, or for Arabic in the USA?
I speak Russian, and I have never even taken classes. In the end, is it not sad, that somebody who has grown up and lived his or her entire life in Latvia does not speak a single word in Latvian?
The matter of fact is that the Kremlin and Russia has, as any ex-suppressor, been constantly meddling in our affairs. We have politicians in the parliament who do not speak a word of Latvian. They are there only to receive a fee from Russia in exchange for exercising Russian interests in Latvian government.
Unfortunately, corruption, the incompetence of Latvian politicians and a lack of national unity have given the upper hand for pro-Russian parties in government. We have a Russian major who has said that he would see the Soviet Union rise and Latvia be part of it. The fact that this referendum even took place is evidence of Russia trying to pick on a smaller country with a weaker voice.
I recommend you do your homework next time. Read a bit into our history and you will understand that Latvia, has enjoyed freedom for very short time periods, but we always had our language and literature. Our national identity is not something optional.
OK, what's the result of the polls?