Border agreements

In the meantime, the killing of innocent children on the border by the Indian Border Security Force continues:
http://tehelka.com/story_main50.asp?filename=Ne151011BLOOD.asp

How long does it take the world's greatest democracy to discipline its own border guards?

@Bill88888888, No doubt at this point of time India considers a friendly Bangladesh is in her best interest particularly when China has already come in a big way to build infrastructure, Power Plants, Bridges, etc. And have also shown to help build a deep sea port in the Bay of Bengal. Wish the road project linking Yunan Province of China to Teknaf in Bangladesh via Myanmar would become a reality soon. Moreover Bangladesh Defence Force's major source of hardware is China. India does not want to see Chinese upperhand and hence they are showing some interest to resolve old and outstanding issues and also assured of opening up of their market to Bangladesh.Only time can tell how genuine is their feeling?

A Bangladeshi wrote:
Sep 20th 2011 9:47 GMT
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@A Bangladeshi

Besides the 20th and 21st centuries, when in human recorded history was there benevolent helpers? Well wishers, ie, moral supporter, there may be a lot, but I don't seem to recall there were that many helpers who actually provided arms to another without expecting something in return. Even sovereign security is a factor to be desired by helpers who would extend their arms. India was a good example. Moreover, even God may have to take sides: the Sunni and the Shiite Muslim are killing each other in Iraq. How will God resolve this one? As for China's vote to bar Bangladesh for UN membership, China was in a no win situation. In international affairs, there is hardly black and white matters. In another words there is no such thing as right or wrong. For the voting, if voted "yes" for Bangladesh's membership into UN, it would offend its ally Pakistan. If China vetoed Bangladesh's UN membership application, it would certainly offend Bangladesh and its people. Moreover, if voted "yes" to the membership application, it would violated China's own "non-interference" policy on another country. If a new country could survive on its own then China should recognize it as an independent country. That is the same scenario with Bangladesh's Chittagong Hill Tracts insurgency, which China will not recognize it unless it can survive as an independent country. Bangladesh will not be friendly to any country which recognizes Chittagong Hill insurgency. If China voted "yes" to the Chittagong Hill insurgency for independence, that will be wrong because it is still a part of Bangladesh. This is the same situation with Bangladesh after it had won the war with Pakistan. In time, China would recognize it as an independent country when it showed every aspect worthy of an independent nation. And then China would extend its hand for friendship if it can be reciprocated. It seems that China had extended its hand for friendship for a long time with Bangladesh.

I did not denounce India's helping hand, but I pointed out that it was bad manner for India not to take Bangladesh's hand for friendship by not ratifying the Indira-Mujib Friendship Treaty. Obviously, India did not desired Bangladesh's friendship. The "shoot to kill" policy on the border still remains. How long can Bangladesh trust India's initiated friendship? The Indira-Mujib Treaty remained un-ratified for 30s years and suddenly in a few months, something can be resolved if India wanted to. This kind of friendship should be monitored. Bangladesh should has its face toward the world and not to expect too much from India.

@Bill88888888, you may be 100% correct. In the 20th or 21st century none can expect a benevolent wellwisher. When its suits one's purpose only then it goes out to help. Thats what is international politics. China opposed Bangladesh's struggle and vetoed Bangladesh membership application couple of times to meet it's own interest. Isn't it? It's Bangladeshi to guard to their own interest.

This is very beneficial for India especially. India has its own problems with Pakistan to worry about, not to mention an economic boom to manage. Maybe now India will be able to focus more own those issues as well as the massive amount of terrorist bombings that take place there. For a country at war with no one, with multiple major religions and ethnic groups, and with several major friends in the world, India seems to have a very excessive amount of terrorist attacks that should now have more attention placed onto preventing them.

A Bangladeshi wrote:
Sep 18th 2011 4:06 GMT

@Bill88888888, I am sorry when you have said the following:
"she ( India/Mrs.Indira Gandhi) had undermine Pakistani by aiding and abetting the disintegration its insurgency. The result was the tragic truth to the birth of Bangladesh as a result of Pakistan's political inequality between the sides of the country. Upon the signing of the Indira-Mujib Friendship Treaty, Indira Gandhi had increased the cheated the Bangladeshis to believe in friendship while the Treaty was blocked by Parliament."
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@A Bangladeshi

Your reading of the above paragraph may not be totally accurate. I should clarify it as below.

It was unfortunate that East Pakistan was governed unfairly between the East and West Sides of the same country. As a result, a revolution was born to topple the Pakistani government on the East side so self rule became possible. The insurgency was lead by Mujib who had formed AWL. On the other hand, the insurgency was aided by the Indian government. If India's aid was given out of sympathy for the people of Bangladesh, I would said that was the ultimate sacrifice that one to give another. However, that aid and sacrifice from India had contained and infused with an ulterior motive, ie, a selfish strategic goal. This goal was not to benefit the Bangali people but to weaken and dissect its neighbours: an usual method employ by the British was to separate and rule. This was shown to be obvious by looking back at the Indira-Mujib Friendship Treaty 1974 which the Indian had never intended to ratify. Furthermore, it was never intended to ratify the Treaty because even at the expiration date of 1997, there was never any preparation to extend it or replace it with another more suitable one. Only lately when Bangladesh had contacts with India traditional strategic enemy China, then India would run back to its neglected and isolated neighbour to resolve some of the outstanding problems, but the "shoot to kill" policy remains at the border. It was fortunate that even in the Bangladesh independence that India would withdrawn its army and not annexed another country as it had done to Sikkim and Goa. Nonetheless, the birth of a nation was a beautiful thing if it was completed in revolution in consensus and for the people. To deliver the birth of a nation for the people is a noble thing. Why did India only deliver the nation of Bangladesh but not Kashmir to have self rule? The only conclusion was it had given birth to Bangladesh for India's own selfish strategic goals. Therefore, the birth of Bangladesh was born out of "tragic truth" in that the birth of Bangladesh was delivered in violence by the selfishness of India's own strategic goal. In another word, Bangladesh was born and delivered for the people but by its enemy India which had a goal of separate and rule. That was the "tragic truth".

@A Bangladeshi. Do you have a comment on what I had said?

@Bill88888888, I am sorry when you have said the following:
"she ( India/Mrs.Indira Gandhi) had undermine Pakistani by aiding and abetting the disintegration its insurgency. The result was the tragic truth to the birth of Bangladesh as a result of Pakistan's political inequality between the sides of the country. Upon the signing of the Indira-Mujib Friendship Treaty, Indira Gandhi had increased the cheated the Bangladeshis to believe in friendship while the Treaty was blocked by Parliament."

You have either misrepresented, misreported history. I am not aware if are and were uptodate on world happenings. The then East Pakistan was a shining example of Pakistani exploitation of the extreme nature and neglect. This had forced Bangladeshis to take a firm decision that it is not worth to be part of Pakistan. In order to have emancipation and dignity as a nation, we must become an Independent Nation. East Pakistanis were 56% of the total population but were never allowed to run the country. In 1970 General Election East Pakistan had elected their representative Awami League with 167 seats in a house of 300. But again it was the same picture, conspiracy by Pakistani elites and Military. Bangladesh had to revolt to make it an Independent Country. Peace loving people from all over the world supported Bangladesh in it's bloody struggle. Indian people and it's Government under the leadership of Mrs. Indira Gandhi came forward to help us. At least 12,000 from Indian Military had laid down their lives in fight under Bangladesh-India Command. People of Bangladesh are grateful and remember with due honour and respect the sacrifice they had made in our cause.

I sincerely hope you will go through history and report correctly.

India's Sick Akhanda Bharat Society

During the forming of India's Independent process, the British, rather, Mountbatten had desired a strong India as part of the Commonwealth Countries glorying the past history of the British Empire. His lack of understanding of the Indian's mentality and aggressiveness had lead to the present form of India. Ever since after India's Independence, India had proved its expansionistic desire. That desire has come from caste society's Brahman whom consider everyone is a lower caste and that they should own every thing in the world absolutely. It started with Nehru as an good example of Brahman who proclaimed had carried the British mindset of defending India at the topographical frontier, along the outer border of Nepal, Bhutan, and Sikkim with China. Nehru had allowed his intelligence chief Mullik to engineered the Kongka Pass incident of 1959. [http://ignca.nic.in/ks_41046.htm] Nehru, from his imagination, had confirmed the McMahon Line on the Official Map 1954 as solid line from the Official Map 1950 as an demarcated line. Contrary to the overt stance of "Chini Hindi Bhai Bhai" in the public, Nehru had already started to undermine China's border by allowing his government to implement his forward policy.

After Nehru's death, his daughter Indira Gandhi [her husband took the last name of Gandhi] had carried Nehru's legacy forward. With her deviant plot and benign public image, she had undermine Pakistani by aiding and abetting the disintegration its insurgency. The result was the tragic truth to the birth of Bangladesh as a result of Pakistan's political inequality between the sides of the country. Upon the signing of the Indira-Mujib Friendship Treaty, Indira Gandhi had increased the cheated the Bangladeshis to believe in friendship while the Treaty was blocked by Parliament. If she strongly believe in the Treaty, she would have find ways to ratify the Treaty. With her assassination in 1984, Nehru's legacy carried on in the family to Rajiv Gandhi. After Rajiv's assassination, his wife, Sonia Gandhi took control of the
Congress Party. The latest Prime Minister Singh is just a puppet for the well connected Gandhi family.

The future of India's foreign policies can be inferred from its past history. As of late, India had become the largest importers of military weapons. As its military expands to have large transport of military attack forces, it will oppress its neighbour even more so than its past history or past hegemonies. And in time, it will undermine even the USA.

nora13@vt.edu wrote:
Sep 16th 2011 8:59 GMT
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@nora13@vt.edu

Your elation for the lately signed Singh-Hasina Treaty is still too early. With past experience of the Indira-Mujib Treaty 1974, the present signed Agreement can still be blocked by the Indian Parliament. Also, there are still many problems which still are not resolved. We will wait and see the outcome of the present agreement in time to come.

Being of Bengali ethnicity it makes me happy to discover that both the Indian and Bangladeshi governments have been able to accomplish something useful. Unfortunately I never had any knowledge of such situation while I lived in Bangladesh. However, I am very familiar with the chaos that exists between the borders of Bangladesh and India. Yes it is unfortunate that India had to give up some land however, the outcome of the agreement is more substantial. It goes to show that although it might take time, no matter what "development" state a country is at, progress can still be made with some discussion and willingness. Also the fact that Bangladesh (with its so called democracy) has been rotating between the same two political parties for the past 4 decades so the fact that they got this done is tremendous in my opinion. Another part of this story which bothers me extremely is the fact that the current government of India is seen as "soft" towards Muslim immigrants. I can understand the frustration with illegal immigration however, the treatment of Muslims in India should definitely be brought up in the world stage for some discussion. 12% of the population in Bangladesh are Hindus and I can say from firsthand experience say that they aren't subject to the brutal treatment Muslims are in Northern India.

For those interested in the article and not trolling, there was a link to the article written in February, which then has a map that can be enlarged. Very interesting to see.

A map of the borders and the enclaves would be helpful in understanding the situation. It was my understanding that India and Bangladesh both have enclaves on either side of the border. I find it surprising that any state would be so nonchalant about something they could consider as their property.

Many in India particularly in Government have a dream vision to make it "Old Akhanda Bharat". In that scheme the neighbours cant have have any place. Every land around what is now India will be part of it. Only future can tell if that will ever happen. In the process the neighbours will have to have suspicion about India. India's attitude dont assure otherwise. State of affairs in the psyche attest that as well.

SADMAN2901 wrote:
Sep 14th 2011 3:55 GMT

One of India's great thinker "CHANAKYO" said relationship with neighbours need not to be good. Keep them under pressure. India probably follows this principle, as is evident. In keeping with this saying none of the neighbours of India are happy. India also do not want it's neighbours do well. If necessary is ready to undertake sabotage too. Ask a Sinhalese, Nepalese, Bhutanese, Bangladeshis or Pakistanis and the answer will be the same.
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@sandman2901

Don't forget that China is one of India's unhappy neighbour too. China had won the war of 1962 and unilaterally withdrew from the occupied disputed land area in anticipation that India would prefer to have negotiation to solve the problem. It had never happened. China is expanding and India is nervous now. Never contact with India neighbour upset India. Bangladesh should keep up the pressure.

One of India's great thinker "CHANAKYO" said relationship with neighbours need not to be good. Keep them under pressure. India probably follows this principle, as is evident. In keeping with this saying none of the neighbours of India are happy. India also do not want it's neighbours do well. If necessary is ready to undertake sabotage too. Ask a Sinhalese, Nepalese, Bhutanese, Bangladeshis or Pakistanis and the answer will be the same.

These enclaves represent nations of people (groups of people who share a common culture such as farming) who are without a state. This is similar to the Kurds & Kurdistan in Northern Iraq. Bangladesh is already one of the most overpopulated and poverty stricken countries in the world, and this enclave (without government, law, education, etc) only serves to keep Bengalis poverty stricken. Furthermore, Pakistan and India probably further ripped these people off when allowing them "passports" to cross over to their borders. India needs to forget its religious and political "reasons" to oppose allowing the enclaves to become part of Bangladesh and think about this.

@vishnugupta

China has warm relationship with the following countries:

1. Russia
2. Tajikistan
3. Kirghistan
4. Kazakhstan
5. Afghanistan
6. Pakistan
7. Mongolia
8. Nepal
9. Laos

If including the two left out, North Korea and Myanmar, there are 11 countries which borders China.

Now, can you tell me which bordering countries that India has good relationship and India has not meddle in their politics?

vikram_r wrote:
Sep 13th 2011 6:37 GMT

Now that the land has been traded, what happens to the citizenship of the people that lived on that land if it switched?
Also, they say this is long over due, but how long have the discussions that led to this decision been going on?
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@vikram_r

There was nothing being done even after the Indira and Mujib Treaty 1972 which Indian Parliament had never ratified. And there was no preparation to extend it in 1997. However, as long as India heard that Bangladesh is having a friendly relationship with China, the negotiation started probably few months ago and completed now.

Now that the land has been traded, what happens to the citizenship of the people that lived on that land if it switched?
Also, they say this is long over due, but how long have the discussions that led to this decision been going on?

vishnugupta wrote:
Sep 13th 2011 5:52 GMT

Bill888888

China's best friends who are very eager to give away land which Chinese claim:
1.Vietnam
2.Mongolia
3.Phillipines
4.Japan
5.Taiwan
6.India

Btw which neighbour other than North'dear leader' Korea and Myanmar does China have warm and friendly relations with??
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@vishnugupta

China has warm relationship with the following countries:

1. Russia
2. Tajikistan
3. Kirghistan
4. Kazakhstan
5. Afghanistan
6. Pakistan
7. Mongolia
8. Nepal
9. Laos

Now, can you tell me which bordering countries that India has good relationship and India has not meddle in their politics?