Chile's electoral system

How is obligatory voting any better? Doesnt that lead to today's problem of an unregistered electorate? Wont slentrian votes simply get captured by the party with the slickest propaganda effort rather than the one with the best policies? And isnt it counter to a free society to force people with no interest or understanding of politics to vote?

Automatic register and mandatory voting is a better arrangement. If you don't like any candidate, just don't mark anyone. On the other hand, the "best public policies offer" thesis is wrong because of its vulnerability to populism when voting is voluntary. I wonder why right politicians commited to stability have supported such idea not taking into account the risk of opening the path to irresponsibility.

"If you don't like any candidate, just don't mark anyone."
Is it really reasonable to force people to the urns so that they can vote blank?
"the best public policies offer thesis is wrong because of its vulnerability to populism when voting is voluntary."
I see the exact opposite problem. Voluntary voters are usually interested enough to make an informed decision. Forced voters just go through the motions and are easily captured by simplistic populist rhetoric. You can't force civic spirit on a population.

Fine Matías, we agree on our disagreement I guess. To me, voting is a duty inherent to citizenship, and all citizens should have the right and the obligation to vote freely expressing her will, no matter if he or she is handicapped, is a woman, doesn't read or write, has no propierty, is not registered with ruling party, and so on and soforth. I can figure out you are not on the same page. Just for the records, I was forced to vote in 1978 and 1980, under fierce dictatorship and with no guarantees whatsoever.

I think we both agree that we want a democracy that is accessible to everyone and a society with a vibrant civic life and engaged electorates, but we disagree on the way to get there.

People should want to vote, out of sheer self-preservation if nothing else, but I fear that if we have to hang a legal threat over their heads to get them do so the battle for democracy is already lost.

Here is a drawing that pretty much explains everything. Humor is good to soothe the pain that these racketeers inflict on the 99% of the world to include the country of Chile.

http://www.maniacworld.com/illusion-of-free-choice.jpg

You complain about cleptocracy yet seem to have no handle on worldwide corruption statistics and our country's relative standing in good governance practice. Here's a little link to get you started:
http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/interactive/

All you seem to want is violent revolution to install a government flying your colors, but you seem to have no idea what that is and how it should be organized.

Are you talking a federal government? How should elections be organized? Would you ban "bad" political parties that don't agree with your choices? What about the economy, do you really support wholesale expropriation and a state-centered economy?

All I'm hearing so far is "Four legs good, two legs baaaaad!"

First off, Do you really believe those stats?

Secondly, the only revolution to do is transparency, honesty, a level plain field education wise, meritocracy, a family/living wage based on real cost of everyday items.

A federal government? Hell yeah, it is long overdue but you must start with a credible bullet proof Constitution, something really lacking in the country of Chile. All regions of the country must be autonomous and cut their own deals with their resources investment wise. The regions that provide no natural resources or worker value must find their own sources of income be tourism, manufacturing facilities, etc. Each case must be treated differently but they must be autonomous an din charge of their own destiny, that way they will attract the best or be left to rot for lack of vision and capacity.

How should elections be organized? Every citizen must have a voice and vote done electronically every time is needed with a paper trail for verification. Politicians can not represent special interests but the voters that elected them and money to run a political campaign must be a defined limited amount allocated from a tax payer's fund for political campaigns.

I won't ban anything like you mentioned, I would just make illegal collusion, nepotism, cronyism, monopolies, etc, anything that attempts against the common good. I would expel demagogues and require Presidents to be elected with a plan. That plan must be implemented and financed with no excuses by the end of the term. If not implemented, those politicians ought to be expelled and fined to return all the monies earned and wasted during the failure of their tenure. And on and on.

Yes, these problems can be fixed and easily if we all get together and work towards the common good.

That is not hard. It is just based on honesty and a vision of equal opportunity towards prosperity.

As is, Chile is copying a failed model. The evidence is overwhelming.

Do I favor expropriation and a state centered economy? No!

Correction: I favor eminent domain expropriations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

In the case of Chile, I have serious doubts since the congress is elected under the "binominal system", which to me makes it flawed to start with to implement eminent domain. It is corruption at the very least. A losing candidate could be elected just because the "rigged" Chilean law says so? In your dreams! Maybe from an African country I expect that, but from Chile, it is truly disappointing, bordering pathetic.

We are in the 21st Century and we need to educate in civic matters as a state policy instead of coming up with a mickey mouse constitution and political system expecting that the ignorant in civic matters will catch up by magic, perhaps in another life and hopefully so according to the thieves in charge. In the mean time, others can make their own laws and loot the country accordingly.

Well, if you have a more reliable source than a reputable independent global organization that is known for consistent criticism across the political spectrum then please let me know.

I put very little stock in what some of the more radical fringes of Chilean politics have to say about the "system", since they have a vested interest in presenting an sensationalist version of the truth to stir up the masses Chavista-style.

Yes we have a legacy of inequality and buddy-politics stretching all the way back to the colonial era. Yes we have an extremely unequal distribution of wealth that seems to get worse as our country becomes richer. Yes we have a police corps that continues to cultivate an institutional culture established in an oppressive dictatorship. Yes we have a political class that has happily lived off a political duopoly for 20 years.

These are our problems. Now look at our strengths. Out of all the countries that share our particular socio-historic context, we have been the most successful in becoming a modern democracy. Argentina's 7-year dictatorship killed three times more people than our 17-year one. We even had an election that resulted in a peaceful transition to democracy. Do you know how *bleeping* rare that is? Chile has a strong civic spirit. Levels of corruption, although not perfect, are actually low when we compare to our neighbours or countries in similar situations. We score 17 places higher in our HDI ranking than our GDP ranking (meaning we are relatively good at producing popular well-being with limited resources). We are the most stable economy in our region, a hub for companies looking to establish operations in Latin America.

I support the same things you want, but not the inflammatory rhetoric in which you put it. Chile is a successful model if you take the long view, but like all models its time has come to evolve. I fully agree with eminent domain expropriation as long as it is done within a clear and fair framework, not what Morales has done in Bolivia.

We need tributary reform, education reform and political reform. The best way to get this is to start by political reform. I have vowed to vote for the next presidential candidate that makes breaking up the binomial system his top priority. I no longer care about his ideological background, only that he vows to create a representative voting system. Once that is done, we should have a parliament with political parties that actually represent the public will, and then we can begin discussing income redistribution and educational reform. Yearning for a violent revolution is an attitude that is a relic from the dictatorship, that's still Pinochet's poison talking.

Well, you make some sense in what you wrote but...

Comparing against others does not make the situation right. Remember, life is short and time flies. You can't spend life waiting for change. Soon enough the situation becomes unbearable and being nice accepting the abuse and then you die does not become the only option. People get angry and start organizing themselves. Look at the Aysen region of Chile, Calama and others waking up and not taking the abuse and/or neglect any more regardless of how many crumbs drop from the elite's plate for them to digest.

I have always wondered why it is so hard to get the best brains in Chile from the whole political spectrum and come up with a decent constitution and political system? Same with the tributary reform. Well, the answer is simple. A minority does not want to relinquish power. Since they have had and continue to have the economic and political power, why give it away? Even the Army and the cops are on their pockets, even family members direct those forces. Especially when the center and left are all the same? They all aspire to similar BMWs, the house in uppity neighborhoods, kids in private schools, vacation in exclusive spots away from the masses, etc. That is why the people are pissed off. Pissed off against the "elites" of all the political spectrum.

But the problem is bigger than economic, politics and education. It has to do with a mindset. Eighty percent does not comprehend what they read nor cares about it. It is a chauvinist, racist and class discriminatory society where being uppity is a lifestyle. Also on the racist side, if you are not blonde and have blue eyes or have a recognized last name, your chances are much more limited to succeed.

Kind of funny, with the availability of home hair dye products, you see Chilean blondes all over the place, never seen before. Whatever it takes to look like a "gringo".

Does the carpet match the drapes? I don't think so! :)